We Are happy You Are Here

Kimberly: 00:00:00

Foreign.

Kent: 00:00:05

Hi, my name is Kent Corso and I'm your host for this episode of One Minute Can Save a Life. While I am a licensed clinical psychologist, none of these guests are my patients, nor does anything I say constitute medical advice.

The views conveyed during our conversations do not reflect the views, positions or policies of any private or public organization. This is simply a series of conversations with people who have some connection to hardship, suicide, mental health, or loss.

There's so much we can learn from one another. So let's get started today. Our guest is Kimberly and we're grateful she's here. She is a suicide attempt survivor.

Kimberly, would you mind introducing yourself and saying a little bit about who you are?

Kimberly: 00:00:50

Sure, yeah. I'm Kimberly and I live in Sublet County, Wyoming. I have only lived here a couple of years. I've recently remarried.

I have three wonderful grown adult children and I used to manage a greenhouse. My attempt actually happened from a pretty severe PTSD attack, rough day at work, but a lot of stuff had happened before that and it was.

It was after a. A pretty severe. Well, I guess they're always severe but pretty bad. Divorce and then everything that happened thereafter.

Now I live in a much nicer setup. I am remarried, my new husband has five children. So I'm learning how to be a stepmom.

And I'm not currently working, but I still love my garden even though there's nothing but sagebrush around me and I'm just kind of learning to bloom more and planted.

Kent: 00:01:51

That's great, Kimberly. Thanks so much for sharing something so personal.

One of the reasons why we like to have attempt survivors or lost survivors or people with lived experience on this podcast is because it helps our listeners realize that this can happen to anyone and that it's not necessarily someone who has some severe mental health diagnosis who thinks about ending their life, but it happens to everyday people. In fact, 12.4 million people think about suicide every year.

It is much more common than we think, but most people don't realize it because we don't talk about it. Also, there are some research studies showing that 58% of people who think of suicide have no mental health diagnosis whatsoever.

So in a sense, we talk about suicide as a social issue.

It's just something that happens to people maybe once in their life where they get to a place of absolute desperation where they are hopeless and they feel like their problems are intolerable and inescapable and suicide comes to mind as one way to escape their pain. We love hearing from people who have lived experience because it Helps it resonate with the larger community.

So would you mind telling us a little more about your story, Kimberly? How you are just an everyday person and that's not an insult. You're obviously an incredible human being and a specimen of resilience.

But again, this can happen to anyone.

Kimberly: 00:03:25

I'd had kind of a pretty rocky 25 year marriage, but I was trying to be the picture perfect marriage, right? And then at the end of that when it was finally decided it wasn't going to work and I needed to escape that.

So I thought I was doing all the right things and I had this great job and I had family support and I had friend support and I had support. So many people that were reaching out and trying to help me and I think a lot of them thought, oh, she's, she's getting over the hump.

She's, she's getting past this miserable divorce, she's getting out of this relationship, she's better. And so then a lot of that help started kind of falling away. And it was winter, and it was a long, miserable, cold winter.

As I said, I managed a greenhouse, so I was incredibly isolated because you don't have customers at a greenhouse and.

Kent: 00:04:19

Well, in the winter and this is a Wyoming winter. So I'm so surprised that it might be cold and people might be isolated at the time.

Kimberly: 00:04:29

Very cold and isolating in my job and, and it was just me all alone. And so I did the really stupid thing.

Oh, and I need to add in there that at the end of my divorce when I was grasping at straws, trying to get people to think that I was lovable and worth something, I was struggling with a pretty severe e disorder too. I was very anorexic and bulimic and because at the end of the marriage, I was trying to get my then husband to think I was worth something.

So I'd lost a severe amount of weight, I was starving, I was sick, I had contracted a parasite, I was really miserable. But everybody thought, oh, she's out of the bad relationship, so she's fine.

So with all of that and the isolation, I did the really stupid thing of starting to date again in a really bad condition. And I didn't meet all creepers, but I met some people that I wish I never had. And I was in a place where I had no self preservation at all.

And all my family support and all my friendship support thought, she's doing great now, she's fine, just let her be.

Kent: 00:05:42

When you say self preservation, what do you mean?

Kimberly: 00:05:46

I mean that I didn't care what happened to me. I started driving fast. I started driving recklessly. I was not taking care of myself.

Even though I went to the gym every day, I was not taking care of myself. I was living on vitamin supplements and nothing else. And so when I would choose the people that I would date, I didn't care if they hurt me.

And sadly, that was my biggest mistake, is I let them hurt me. And then when I started just unraveling and I had to start being like, I can't make my mortgage payment. I can't pick myself back up.

I had to go back to my family and friends and be, like, falling apart. I'm not better just because I got out of my bad marriage and I.

I had all this shame, and I was starving, and I needed to fix that, and I didn't know how to get help.

Kent: 00:06:49

Can I ask a question? It sounds like what you're saying is your family thought it was all better because the life situation had sort of resolved.

And I'm using air quotes here because just because a marriage is over doesn't mean there's no aftermath. Right? So they're thinking you're sort of good to go, but you're still struggling.

And I love how you said what you said a moment ago, which is that I allowed people to treat me that way. In other words, you're really owning the responsibility for boundaries.

And oftentimes in life, people or situations will really push our boundaries, and it's up to us to set those boundaries and push back and say, no, that's not okay. And I really appreciate how you're drawing attention to that, that. That in the process, you allowed this to happen. And.

And so when you turned to your family for help, it sounds like they might have been surprised that you were in such a low place.

Kimberly: 00:07:50

Yeah, I. I think a lot of my family was surprised because they're just like, oh, well, she's out of the divorce. Like, why. Why isn't everything better?

You know? And. And part of that, I was just like, you know, I. I have lived with a man for 25 years, and I learned to cower away and just.

Just let, you know, whatever, to keep him happy. And. And then that became my habit. And that totally was like, I. I had to own that, too.

Kent: 00:08:20

It. It sounds like survival, to be fair. It sounds like that was how you learned to survive in a very oppressive marriage. Am I right?

Kimberly: 00:08:29

Yeah, absolutely. And I had. I had some mama bear in me where I would totally protect my cubs for anything, but then they were all grown.

And as soon as the divorce was finalized, the last one left. And so I was like, well, I don't have anybody to protect anymore. And I never once thought of protecting myself. Never.

Like, I never thought about, like, protecting me. I just thought, you know, now I'm kind of floundering, and I don't know what to do.

And every bit of confidence that I ever had when I protected my kids was gone. And it's really kind of strange to me, even now, I have a very dear friend. She was my assistant at the greenhouse.

And I will go, mama bear protecting her. But, like, I don't ever go, mama bear protecting me. And I don't know, like, I'm still learning that I'm still learning.

Like, I'm allowed to feel this way, and I'm allowed to, you know, so. So at the point that I won't go into detail, but I. The last guy I dated, I really let him hurt me too much.

And I probably should have pressed charges, but I was scared, too. And then I let too much church talk get into my head, and I thought, well, now I've done something really horrible, and I have to confess this.

And that fear of, oh, crap, I have to. I have to go act like I'm evil, and I'm ashamed, and I have to tell, like, these churchmen what I've done.

That shame wall just came down on me, and I was just buried under that, and I didn't know what to do with that. That held me, like, in a very dark place. And I was there for about a week where I was kind of like, I don't know what to do with this.

And then we're at the end of March, and we're kind of like, what. What do I do? I don't know what to do with this.

And, you know, the spring is starting to wake up, and, you know, the growies at my greenhouse are waking me up, and I'm doing kind of like, they're keeping me alive, right? And I can look back at my Facebook posts now, and I can see how I was absolutely screaming for help.

I was asking my friends, my neighbors, my everybody. I was saying, you guys, I'm struggling. I don't know what to do. Somebody help me. But I couldn't just come right out and say it because I was ashamed.

Kent: 00:10:45

So what were you saying instead? It sounds like you were speaking in some sort of veil or code.

Kimberly: 00:10:50

I write a lot of poetry, and I was saying things like, I want to be invisible, and I wanted to peer. And I Wrote things like ode to my piggy bank. Thank you for keeping me alive. We're here to die another day. You know, just things like this.

And I was like, you guys, I really need help. But I couldn't just come right out and say it. And.

Kent: 00:11:13

Yeah, so for all our listeners out there right now, if you have that same feeling, if you're in that same mindset, please know that you're not alone. Please know that this is something that we experience when we get to that dark place.

If you're listening right now and it's not you who's suffering, but you've seen Facebook posts like this among your friends or your family or your co workers, please reach out to them. And Kimberly, I'm sorry to interrupt your story.

I just want to ask for listeners out there who are struggling with this and might be doing the same sort of talking in code or being vague, but really trying to reach out for help. What would you encourage them to do? What would you recommend to them?

Kimberly: 00:12:03

So for the person struggling, if you have somebody you can trust, be brave and just say, I'm scared. I need your help. This is where I'm at. Just come right out and say it because you're worth living and we want you to stay.

Kent: 00:12:22

Should they say, I'm thinking of ending my life?

Kimberly: 00:12:25

I wouldn't say in print on Facebook, but I would call somebody that you know you can Trust or dial 988. They're better than you think they are. They've fixed their, you know, they're not going to send a patrol officer to your door.

And hopefully they won't treat you like a criminal. If. If they do, I'm sorry, because I've been there.

Kent: 00:12:48

They have excellent training. I would encourage everyone to call 988 and don't wait till you're right there ready to end your life. Call as soon as you have the thoughts.

Kimberly: 00:12:58

The 988 people are actually really remarkable and they're wonderful people. I have called them since and they're good people.

For the person on the receiving end, the friend, the person who gets the message, the person who sees the message, even if it's just one of those. This seems off. My friend is like saying weird stuff and I'm not sure, like, I don't know, call your friend, visit your friend, reach out.

But that person, like, don't come out and ask it because you're gonna scare them. And I know that sounds counter to what we've heard. Just say, I love you. I'm worried about You. How can I help you?

I'm right here, and I'm not leaving until you let me know how I can help you. And then sit there and be quiet for 10 minutes.

Kent: 00:13:48

So just be a presence. Be in sort of open a door and then allow them to walk through in their own. At their own moment, sort of on their own timetable.

Kimberly: 00:13:57

Because the greatest thing any friend has ever done for me is sit down next to me and just let me cry for 10 minutes.

Kent: 00:14:06

Then how did you feel after you got that cry out?

Kimberly: 00:14:10

Just so much relief. I have friends again. My assistant at the greenhouse has done this for me. Like, and we didn't have any Kleenex at the time.

She brought me a roll of shop towels. But honestly, like, she just let me cry.

Kent: 00:14:27

And it's not like once you're done crying, everything's all better. But there's a feeling that's relieved. Is that right?

Kimberly: 00:14:34

Right. That somebody sees me, somebody hears where I'm at. They're not ashamed to be my friend. They're not ashamed of all this heavy crap.

They still want to be my friend. And that's. That means so much. That. That is so everything.

Kent: 00:14:55

Right?

When people get to that spot where they're overwhelmed and they're thinking of ending their life, it's such a isolated state of mind and isolated feeling.

And one of the things they truly need to help them come back from that place is just another human being who is caring for them, who says, I'm here, I'm by your side. It's okay to feel whatever you're feeling. I'm not going to judge you. I'm not going to force you to do anything.

I'm just going to be sort of bonded to you. I'm just going to connect with you. You.

And we know that the more we connect with others in that way, it helps them carry on, at least for another few days. We don't have research on the number of days or hours, but it does give them a boost. And you're living proof, Kimberly.

Kimberly: 00:15:43

Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, like.

Like I said, this same friend, and there's been other friends since, because, you know, kind of once you've been there, your. Your mind does easily trip back and think about, well, you know, maybe I don't want to be here again. And you have to, like, really push through.

And so this friend has, you know, she. She's kept me here for so, so many times, and she has helped me find the strength to push through and remember that what I'm feeling is not Forever.

And it's not going to just, you know, the whole world is not going to fall apart, even though it feels like it is right now. She's very validating. And, you know, if you can just validate that experience and go, I'm not trying to fix you. I'm not trying to change you.

I'm not trying to judge you. Just, how can I help right now? And then just stay and, you know, 10 minutes, and then you're. You're good to go again.

And it really doesn't take very long.

Kent: 00:16:46

That's great. That's really what most people need, is just someone to be there with them in that moment.

And I love what you said, Kimberly, a moment ago, which is, this isn't the last feeling I'm going to have. There's an attempt survivor who I did a podcast with about two years ago, and she says no feeling is final.

That's sort of the big light bulb that came to her after her attempt is that no feeling is final.

And so she wanted anyone who's struggling with suicidal thoughts to know that, that, look, this isn't how it has to end, and this is not how it's going to end. Just reach out, connect with someone, and allow that bonding and that connection to carry you through those really, really hard moments.

Kimberly: 00:17:31

Exactly. Yeah.

Kent: 00:17:33

Now, one other thing. And then I think we'd love to hear the rest of your story, but one other thing.

If there are some men listening or people who are not so comfortable just crying, I think sometimes we turn to, hey, let's go get a beer and let's talk about it, or, hey, let's have a glass of wine and talk about it. Where we might turn to Alcoh in order to try to process or to have that moment.

What would you advise people who maybe are not likely to cry with someone, but they still need that presence of someone else? How do you go about that?

Kimberly: 00:18:04

Whatever your hobbies are. Like, for example, yesterday we went fishing.

My husband has a really severe back injury right now, and he is not having a good time because he's in a lot of pain. So yesterday I was like, let's get out of the house. Let's do something to get your mind off of this.

And, you know, we didn't have to go very far because of where we live. We went fishing.

If you're not feeling well enough to do those things, play cards, you know, something that will avert your mind from that thing, but you don't have to partake of something that's going to make it worse. Because the alcohol will. It's a depressant, It'll make it worse. You know, like opioids will make it worse. All of those things actually make it worse.

So, you know, you don't want to do the things that make it worse, but you do want to do the things that will avert your attention. But you can still have your common bond with that. If you're playing cards, you know, you are still communicating, you are still connecting.

If you're fishing, you're still connecting. If you're any of those things that are the common hobbies, any of. Even if your time flies together, all of those things.

So any of those things that the men do to kind of still connect. So yeah, if you're not a crier, there's other things.

Kent: 00:19:16

If you're not a crier, there are other things. Right. I mean, it could even be, hey, let's go for a drive and just drive.

Kimberly: 00:19:21

Yep. Yep. You can just drive. Yep. Turn off the radio and sing. Yeah. 1 like my oldest son, he loves to just like sing in the car and we do that.

Kent: 00:19:31

That's great. I mean, it doesn't have to be this intense face to face interaction.

It can be just doing an everyday activity you would normally do, but with someone else present.

Kimberly: 00:19:41

Yes, exactly. The point is that you're not isolated and you feel the connection with somebody else.

Kent: 00:19:46

Excellent. So before we run out of time, it sounds like you were in this very dark place, a place of pain and shame and feeling bad about yourself.

And at the same time, what I heard you say is the last man I was with, I let him hurt me real bad. It sounds like now there's a turning point where suddenly you start to assert yourself or you start to care for your in a different way.

Can you tell us about sort of that turning point and was it right after the attempt or help us understand it?

Kimberly: 00:20:18

It was actually right before the attempt. And it was just that I let it go further than I wanted it to. Right. And I did. I let him hurt me too much.

And then at the end of that week, just had a Murphy's Law type day at work where everything that could go wrong did go wrong. And there was a woman that came into the greenhouse and she was having a bad day.

Her husband did apologize for her behavior, but she yelled at me for everything. From that our fruit trees were not yet blooming, which keep in mind this is Wyoming March. To that our parking lot was not completely plowed.

There was still snow. Wyoming March. So all of these things and it just was one of those things where my head was going, I can't do anything right.

I'll never do anything right. I'll never be good enough. All of those things.

And it just sent me into a complete downward spiral and everything I had ever done wrong started piling up. My co worker that I mentioned told me later that after that lady left, I just kind of turned gray.

I just went zombie and I dissociated for the rest of the day. And she couldn't get me back. Like, she tried, but she just couldn't get me back.

So for anybody else out there that you, if you see somebody, go to that point, I don't know what I looked like to her. She just said gray and zoned out. If you see somebody to that point, I would recommend not letting them be alone.

If you can, call other friends if you can, and say, hey, something's up, we need to. Because at that point I don't remember a whole lot after that point. I don't remember like anything else that I really did that day.

I have little glimpses of it.

But it was probably at that point that the whole tipping of just autopilot kicked in and, and that I, you know, ended up making the attempt that night and, you know, just thank heaven that all the right people were in the right place that I was found and recovered.

Kent: 00:22:23

Absolutely. We are so glad you're here, Kimberly. After your attempt, it's common that people have one of three responses.

Either they sort of come to a consciousness and realize, oh my goodness, thank goodness I have a second chance. I almost died. And then a smaller group of people will come to and they'll say something like, well, that didn't work. What now?

And they'll kind of meander through life for a few weeks or months until they find their meaning and purpose again. And then a very small group, they sort of wake up and say, dang it, I'm so worthless, I couldn't even end my life. Now I have to try harder.

Which one of those reactions was your post survival response?

Kimberly: 00:23:03

I think now I'm in the second group. At the very beginning, I was probably in the third. And it took a little bit of time, some education and growth to get me to the second.

And I only say that because my very, my very first memories, I kind of feel like I was like shooting. Even God doesn't want me. He sent me back. I don't know what to do. But then I was like, I must be here for a reason because I have, I have memories.

Of some divine presence being with me and saying, stay with me. Stay here. I'm not gonna leave. Keep breathing.

And I also have memories of, like, leaving my body and being slammed back into my body, which hurt like crazy. And those things are. Those are very interesting memories to just get curious about and go over and. And think, why, why, why do I have those? So those.

I just think I must have a purpose. And when I came to the second year anniversary, I thought the two people who said exactly what you just said, I'm so glad you're here.

I want to pass that message along. I was so grateful for the two people who said, I'm so glad you're here, that I really wanted to turn that around and share it with the world.

Because, as I mentioned, there are times that I still slip. There are times that I don't want to get out of bed. There are times that I have a really bad day, and I think, what am I here for?

Like, I don't even know what to do. And then I have to go. I'm here to learn like, that this is not forever. And just really dig for the faith that carries you on, even in a bad day.

And I'm so glad that I have the opportunity to practice that and to just really dig and go, okay, just stay with me. Keep breathing. We got this. It's going to be okay. For that and to help other people find that, I made up cards that say, I'm so glad you're here.

And I have a Facebook page that says, I'm so glad you're here. And I just really want to share that message of this moment of pain. I know it's horrible.

And when you're in it, like, you can't see your way out of it, but you.

You've got to know that your life, the value of a human life, is worth more than any trauma and any debt and any demand that the world could place on you. And if I can help just one person see that, then that's what I want to do.

Kent: 00:25:44

That's so amazing.

How inspiring for you to not only come back from your dark place and overcome the hardship that you experienced, but now you've got a Facebook page, and it's called. What is it called again?

Kimberly: 00:26:00

I'm so glad you're here.

Kent: 00:26:02

So you've got a Facebook page. I'm so glad you're here. You're trying to encourage others to not only understand that sentiment, but maybe even. Even to use it.

So what I would say, just following your lead, Kimberly, is If there are any listeners here who recently learned or in the next few months will learn of someone they know who has attempted or has thought of killing themselves, tell them, I'm so glad you're here. Right.

Kimberly: 00:26:28

Yeah.

Kent: 00:26:29

Is there any other advice you have for our audience?

Whether it's something about things that they should consider or reconsider when it comes to this stuff, or maybe even sharing with them something that worked really well for you in your own path back to this place of strength and recovery.

Kimberly: 00:26:47

Just be gentle, you know, be gentle with yourself. Be gentle with other people. We do hear it all the time. That you have no idea what anybody else is going through.

We don't know other people's story, but sometimes we can be so harsh and so demanding on other people when we have no idea what they've got going on. And if you can just pause and take a minute.

And even when we're so hard on ourselves, we think we've got to do so much, and we really do create shame. And it's usually the shame wall that pushes somebody over the edge. But if we can just go, man, why? Why do I expect so much from that person? I don't.

Where did this come from? But if we can just go, it's okay. You know, they don't have to be perfect. They don't have to.

And all these demands that we place on ourselves and that society places on us, if we can just give people a little bit of grace and just be like, hey, I am not here to judge you. It's gonna be okay. Whatever it is, let's just put it down for a second. And love who you are.

Kent: 00:27:59

You know, that's wonderful. So have grace. Love who you are. It also makes me think, Kimberly, have empathy for yourself and have empathy for others.

Kimberly: 00:28:08

Yep.

Kent: 00:28:08

Right.

Kimberly: 00:28:09

Absolutely. Yeah.

Kent: 00:28:10

That's wonderful.

You are such a great example of someone who has experienced post traumatic growth, which is when someone experiences severe hardship and somehow they arise from that. I'm going to use a metaphor. That burning ash. Right. They sort of rise from it, and they are someone who is stronger and almost more evolved.

So I think we'd love to have you back on another podcast to talk a little bit about that. I think it might be helpful for our listeners.

I won't ask you to commit on the air here, but I'm just going to plant that seed in the event that you're willing to do so. Thank you so much for sharing your story, Kimberly. Thank you for being here, for being alive and for sharing yourself with us.

Kimberly: 00:28:50

Thank you for having me.

Timothy: 00:28:52

Thank you for listening to this episode of One Minute Can Save a Life. Take care of yourself. Take care of your neighbor. Be bold, old. Ask the hard questions. Because if you don't, who will?

Production support for One Minute Can Save a Life was provided by TKB Podcast Studio. To find out more about our services, go to tkbpodcaststudio.

Timothy: 00:29:18

Com.