Gov Mark Gordon: 00:00:00

Foreign.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:00:05

My name is Kent Corso and.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:00:06

I'm your host for this episode of One Minute Can Save a Life. While I am a licensed clinical psychologist, none of these guests are my patients, nor does anything I say constitute medical advice.

The views conveyed during our conversations do not reflect the views, positions or policies of any private or public organization. This is simply a series of conversations with people who have some connection to hardship, suicide, mental health or loss.

There's so much we can learn from one another. So let's get started today.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:00:39

Our guest is Wyoming Governor Mark Gordon.

Governor Gordon is no stranger to the podcast series, having joined us last December to discuss mental health, suicide prevention and the power of helping one another. A little background.

% vote margin in: 2022

He also served two terms as Wyoming's treasurer prior to being governor, earning national and international acclaim for sound fiscal policy.

Coming off of September, Suicide Prevention Month of programming around the state, we reflect on the month past year's event and all that we are currently doing in the great state of Wyoming. Let's go ahead and get started. This is our November episode. Welcome, sir.

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:01:37

Oh, it's nice to be here. It's good to have a chance to have a good conversation at this time of year. It's such an important time of year.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:01:47

That is true.

And one of the things that makes it so important is we are celebrating our veterans in a few days as well as Thanksgiving as we think about why mental health is important to you. You any initial thoughts?

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:02:02

Governor Gordon it's such an important thing. You know, this time of year brings back memories of, of a lot of things and in my family, obviously really deep military roots.

My wife's dad was a senior master sergeant when he retired from the Air Force, but he'd already been in the Army Air Force and then he had been in the Navy and then he'd also been in the in the army as well.

And then on, on my side of the family, General George Patton, the one that went through World War II, is my great uncle, but I'm more attentive to his son George Patton iv, who served in Korea, served in Vietnam. And Jenny and I were talking the other day just about how hard it was to come back. And you know, her brother volunteered when he was 17.

He just, he still serves in the army, but he served a couple tours in he went to Vietnam and then he served all the way through to Iraq. And, you know, we were sitting around talking about just the issues that are there and how many people are dealing with, you know, the circumstances.

And so for me, it's a bit about that, particularly this time of year. But I also think about the kids that my kids grew up with going through school. Some of those kids that just. It just.

John Lopez, best advanced reader in the class, had a hard time getting started. Family had some issues they were dealing with, and, you know, nobody really saw it coming. And suddenly he was gone.

Brian Benner graduated top of his class, went off to college, was working at a ski resort, and everybody loved him. He was a phenomenal soccer player, great athlete, and something happened. And, you know, these are the things that I think, I hope that we can catch.

That's why we have put as much effort into kind of addressing behavioral health and mental health issues as we have. You know, we've got George Patton, the fourth's son, has got a thing called the Patton Veterans Project. We've got veterans talking to veterans.

And then, you know, Kent, I guess the other thing that really hits me this time of year, you know, we've gone through a nice fall, and then, you know, we've got Thanksgiving, as you say, and then we got Christmas. And I think about our seniors. We've got a very good friend who's kind of in assisted care now, but she's really quite isolated.

We try to visit her as much as we can. There's a lot of complications this time of year, and I just am hopeful that we can reach out and do a better job.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:04:40

I think that's a great point, Governor Gordon. While many of us are celebrating and spending time around loved ones this time of year, it can be a very painful time for others.

Maybe they've lost a loved one and their absence is felt more severely during this time of year, or maybe they are all alone and there's just no one for them to be connected with. So I think you make a great point there. What is it we can do to build our communities?

How can we build connectedness knowing that the more connected we are to each other, the more we are reducing all sorts of risks, whether they are chronic health disease, whether it's mental health issues like depression or suicide.

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:05:23

I think there is a little bit of good news here. I mean, we've spent quite a bit of time going around the state finding out that it isn't one size fits all.

You know, we've been able to put some community prevention grants out there. That have allowed community groups to, you know, kind of stand up efforts in their local communities.

Because we, I think we know how important it is that there's a familiarity with the person that we're dealing with. You know, we don't necessarily want to talk to a box or to a quote, shrink.

We've found this a lot with certain communities where it's really our friends, we need to talk to friends.

In fact, you know, for, for me, when my first wife passed away pretty unexpectedly and I had two little girls, you know, I was really concerned that how we deal with this, a four year old and a two year old and a dad. And every book I read, you know, every self help book I read was talking about how dads are just completely incompetent with this.

And you know, being from Wyoming and being, and I'm not accustomed to giving in when somebody says you can't do something, I'm usually going to do it.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:06:29

That's right.

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:06:29

And I remember talking to actually a good friend, but a counselor and he said, you know, it's your friends that are important.

So being able to have a familiar surrounding, people who care, people who have some expertise, being able to pull on those resources and then most importantly being able to actually reach out and just have somebody care about that, that makes a big difference. And I think what we're doing is we're starting to move the needle. I mean, Wyoming has always had such a kind of unfavorable statistic.

We've been number one for suicide in the country. We're no longer number one, but which is movement and that's exciting.

And then you talk about some of the statistics that have happened because of the efforts we've put in communities and you realize that it isn't sort of formulaic, but if you're careful about how you do it and there's some expertise behind it and you're empowering local resources that good things happen.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:07:31

I love that word you use, Governor. Empowering.

Because I think oftentimes there's this misunderstanding that the more heavy handed we are, the more we sort of make decisions for someone that the healthier they are. And that couldn't be further from the truth.

When we think about both self help and helping each other, we know that it starts with the basics and it's as you said, help your friends, help your family and also help yourself. For example, the 988 Suicide in Crisis lifeline has seen a 10% increase in calls this year alone. And that's on top of a 40% increase from last year.

So not only are we increasingly being willing to use these resources at a local level, but we're willing to help ourselves, which is really important because I think there are so many of us who value our independence and value that self reliance. So to have tools to be able to use to preserve that self reliance is important to people.

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:08:31

You're absolutely right. I'm glad you brought up that 988. You know, that has been a national resource for a long time. And it's interesting.

I've heard a few people, good friends, one high school counselor who was saying that one of the challenges before was when people would call that 988 number. They might be talking to somebody and I don't know, call it, call it South Carolina. They don't talk the way we do in Wyoming. They have no idea where.

Places like Hewlett R or Manderson or Opal, they don't even know how to pronounce. They call it Arvada and start of our Veda. And you know, right off the bat that's sort of off putting. And so we were able to stand up the.

It was a little bit of a fight with our legislature. They're coming along, but it takes a little bit of pushing to get them, to get them there. But they finally stood up.

And to your point, I mean this is the thing I say over and over and over again, we're getting a lot of use. But more, more to the statistic that some people might find heartening.

This means that, you know, over 90%, 95% of the issues that we're dealing with with somebody in crisis are getting resolved without having to call the sheriff, without having to call the police department, without having to call the fire department or anybody else. And it's getting resolved.

These are human beings and we want to make sure they get taken care of to the best of our ability and get the resources they need. And that's the premier point here. But there's a nice little bit of icing in that. It's not costing as much either.

We're just actually providing a resource that people find valuable.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:10:14

That's exactly right. And not only do they appreciate it, but I believe we're seeing some decreases in suicide rates in several communities.

e seen in Lincoln county from: 2021

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:10:54

They are, and I think they're heartening.

You know, you talked about Lincoln county, and I remember you and I were sitting there listening to that testimony and a certain amount of pride of we're much more able to meet people where they need to be. And, you know, we can celebrate a little bit the fact that we're actually moving the needle in a good way.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:11:14

Exactly. And I remember them saying it's that people feel more comfortable talking about it, and that's code word for getting help.

And I know many people don't like to either seek help or admit that they want help, but that's moving the needle. And I think what's so heartwarming about it is they're doing it themselves.

To your point from a few minutes ago, at the local level, they're putting resources to good use in the best way they know how, because they know themselves best.

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:11:44

And that was something that, I guess I feel that we did correctly is I and the Director of Health and Family Services and others, we went around the state and listened to communities and kind of got a better sense of what the concerns were, what the needs were. And I think about that at this time of year, you know, we all want to celebrate.

It's, you know, with the great football games and this and that, the tendency to maybe overindulge a little bit can be there. And we heard a little bit about that in the community. Some communities were.

We had a lot of people talking about substance abuse and how important that had become in their communities, and other communities were talking about other issues, but we were listening on the ground. And it's amazing how many people wanted to come and maybe share a personal story but be involved in making things a little bit better.

And sometimes I think, you know, in the sort of press of legislative matters, there's, you know, we're. We're at a very high level. We don't necessarily get down.

We all represent our constituencies, but at the same time, maybe these are issues that aren't being heard as much, maybe don't feel like they're getting addressed.

So we felt like we were actually meeting people and listening to them and hopefully being able to kind of tailor and respond a little bit that I'm hoping we can build some more on.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:13:14

Absolutely. It's not about doing things for them or taking on their burden, but rather Building capacity at the local level.

That's of course how we got the opportunity to be a part of the why We Care initiative. Right. It's one resource that we're providing in a whole slew of other resources that people asked for.

They said we need substance abuse treatment resources, we need suicide prevention resources and so forth.

So I really appreciate how there's this ongoing dialogue between the state government and the local communities to say, what do you need and how can we support you? And then you're building capacity.

It's not as if you're creating some unhelpful dependency on the state government that will somehow shackle the government with all these long term fees and costs.

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:14:02

I absolutely agree. And I would point to one of the great benefits of being in a place like Wyoming in that respect.

You know your, your senator, you know, your governor, you know your representative, you can talk to them on a first name basis.

And, and so I think it is important that we really tie into what that means because as you've talked about, we've talked about it a lot, the issue of what do we do about preventing suicides. We've got lots of different initiatives from veterans to, you know, high school kids to communities and others.

In fact, I think, didn't we do a suicide fatality review and kind of come up with some ideas on that?

Dr Kent Corso: 00:14:43

The suicide fatality review initiative is a fantastic collaboration that's happening statewide and it's being run through the coroner's offices. It's such an important component in best practice suicide prevention at the system level.

In other words, if there's a suicide in, let's say, Sweetwater county, after the fatality review is done, other counties like Albany or Hot Springs, they can learn any new insights that help them better reduce suicides.

And so it's so important that we're sharing information that way because as we've said before, sort of communities know themselves best and they'll know if that information is relevant to folks in their community and reducing risk in their community.

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:15:27

Well, and another really exciting development this last year, kind of unexpected, but really a remarkable.

Because you were hearing from police and sheriff's deputies and others that were being called to folks that were in crisis and maybe not having the training. And it's just, how do I even broach the subject?

And one of the cool things was Leona Helmsley coming with that incredible grant that put resources at their fingertips. So, you know, it's a really cool thing that happened this year.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:15:59

I think it's wonderful how they're Using technology to build capacity among the law enforcement officers within these communities.

One other thing that I know is happening across the state are resources similarly supported by the Wyoming Department of Health, Injury and Violence Prevention Program. And there's a training website with year round trainings and tons of other resources in various communities. It's very easy to navigate.

I'm sharing that in case our listeners are not aware of it.

We'll make sure to include that link in the episode notes for this podcast episode, but strongly encourage all listeners to check out that website and get some of the training. Some of the other resources that are being provided to you from Governor Gordon's office.

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:16:46

Excellent point with regard to the law enforcement first responders being able to show up with technology in hand.

What a remarkable benefit, what a remarkable asset to be able to have at your fingertips the ability to have information that can be helpful in resolving a crisis situation. I'm just so thankful that the Helmsley foundation decided to mention that.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:17:12

Because Veterans Day is approaching. Can we shift gears to talk a little bit about some of the veterans resources and exciting things we're seeing in Wyoming on that side?

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:17:20

Sure.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:17:20

I know that Veterans Talking to Veterans is a program that's been rolling out for our listeners who are not aware that involves professional coaching. Oftentimes police will only talk to police or maybe military members will only talk to military members.

And this is a good example of where we're teaching veterans to be professional coaches to support other veterans. Now this is not in lieu of other health care or mental health care, but it sort of is the right type of conversation at the right time.

Not everybody's ready to seek help from a professional or a clinician.

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:17:58

Couldn't agree with you more. I put it a little differently. My neighbor, growing up in the little tiny community I lived in, KC became a Wyoming senator, John Schiffer.

And I grew up with him. I remember when he volunteered and went off to Vietnam. He thought it was important to volunteer.

You know, he came back like many of his age group, he was a little bit older than me and really suffered from some issues. Now, John compensated with it very, very well. But I can remember him saying how important it was that you wanted to have a buddy.

You know, he said when, I mean, this is almost a direct quote. He, he served as a river rat, which was pretty precarious stuff.

And he said, you know, you're over there and you go over because the country's great and you love it and everything else, but when you're in the heat of things, it's your buddy that you're counting. You want to make sure you and your buddy get home. And I've heard that notion over and over and over again.

In fact, one of the first graduation ceremonies for veterans talking to veterans, one of the guys came up to me afterwards and he said, you know, the fact that people understand that it is somebody who has that shared experience, who maybe has been in a kind of a similar situation, who understands what's going on in your mind at that time, that buddy is somebody that's really important.

And so the coaches, I think what veterans talking to veterans has been able to do in terms of being able to lower the level to just conversation, but a directed conversation that's helpful. It's amazing. We've now graduated three, maybe four classes.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:19:43

That's right.

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:19:43

And each of these have come back with remarkable stories. And it's not just about veterans.

We had a horrible situation with a mother who, for whatever reason, just made some incredibly bad choices that really involved the whole community. And sadly, she died by suicide. Kids were, you know, somehow involved in some. Some of that as well. And the community, very small community.

Veterans talking to veterans. Some of the coaches that were trained immediately showed up and were there for the community. It wasn't, hey, we're riding in to save the day. It's.

We feel what the hurt that this community is feeling. We want to be helpful in doing that. And it's interesting, too. It's my cousin, a little bit different approach.

It's a little bit higher touch and different. But the Patent Veterans Project, you get three or four veterans around, and they make a short video about what their experience is.

And, you know, sometimes talking is great, but sometimes putting that into a storyline and visualizing it and being able to explain. So I think that.

And just some of the other things we're doing, obviously, this is a great country, and we are a great country because we are the first country in the world that actually said, we are a volunteer army. We are standing up for the principles that we all share in this constitution. We're willing to take arms up to defend that.

That's a lot different than, you know, we're going to war because our king told us to do that.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:21:27

That's right. And if I could go back to Ben Patton's project and what veterans talking to veterans are doing just for a moment.

One thing they have in common is that it's about storytelling. When we tell our story, especially in front of others, we. We develop new meaning.

And particularly if someone has experienced trauma or Something that frankly no human should see or experience. That storytelling provides them insight. They're doing it with the support of their brothers or sisters. Right.

And we mean brothers and sisters in arms. Of course. Sure. And so it's so powerful when they develop new meaning and new understanding.

So really love the connection between both of those wonderful programs for, for veterans.

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:22:08

Thank you. And I, you know, as you were talking about that, I was thinking about, this is about first responders too.

There can be some really horrific experiences that maybe a first responders run into. And, you know, you have all this training, you think it's all good, but it sits with you maybe over time.

And so making sure that we are not just dwelling on one community or another, but really making the resources available. And I think that's one thing that veterans.

Talking to veterans has been really helpful because we now have in our graduating classes not only veterans, but we have law enforcement, we have others.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:22:49

I love how you've added other populations. If we could talk for a little bit about the elderly within Wyoming Governor Gordon they have different experiences.

I mean, we're talking about in a few weeks, it'll be Thanksgiving. And that's a time where everybody celebrates and we reunite with family members, maybe distant, maybe close.

But the idea is that there's togetherness. And for some who have lost loved ones or maybe are completely alone, it's not a very fun time. It's not a very joyful time.

So there's that timing that we know maybe hits the elderly harder. At the same time, the elderly may have chronic health conditions. And so is there anything that we're doing statewide to help that community?

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:23:35

So, you know, one of the things that I'm really excited about, it came up here fairly recently.

There's a voice in Wyoming that everybody knows, a guy, a wonderful guy who approached me, Bob Price, and said, you know, maybe there's something we can do with that demographic. So we're working on putting out an awareness and outreach campaign to support our citizens.

We're really trying to reach them in places that are familiar to them to be able to open some conversations, be able to have the connections. It's not always easy to do that.

So, you know, Bob's been a friend for a long, long time and I'm really looking forward to exploring with him and with the help of others, you know, how we can be able to make these conversations mesh a little bit more. I'm thinking that there are some real opportunities in the meantime. Obviously, 988 is such an important resource, particularly if you're at home.

But coming back to the outreach, because we really can do more about our seniors at that time.

They have so much experience, the stories are so important, and being able to have that ability to have that storytelling, to be able to build on that, I think is going to be. Is going to be so important.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:24:53

Before we wrap up, Governor, one thing that I would like to just unpack for a moment or two is just this idea of mental health.

I think it's so normal and common for us to think that mental health is either schizophrenia, where someone's hearing voices or they're really not in reality. Or maybe it's just about anxiety and depression.

And too often we don't realize that mental health is part of a bigger category called behavioral health. And behavioral health is any way in which behavior affects your health.

And so in that sense, mental health and physical health are completely intertwined and inseparable.

So as we think of the elderly or as we think of our veterans and we think of their health, something that many people may not know is the top 10 causes of death in our country are related to behavior. 100 years ago, it was bacterial infections and viral infections, but these days it comes down to behavior.

So when we think of mental health, we really need to be thinking more broadly about behavioral health. So what do I eat? Do I exercise?

And when we think about what is life like as a senior, would I rather live to 100 years old, but be not mobile, not able to really communicate with the people who are loved ones? These things are all connected.

So as we think about the holidays, as we think about our seniors, as we think about mental health, we need to be thinking more broadly, and how do we take care of one another? How do we make sure people are taking care of themselves, including physical health?

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:26:32

I absolutely agree. I think all of us can remember those times when maybe we didn't get enough sleep. Maybe we've been sitting way too long.

Maybe we've just had a pretty long weekend with far too much indulgence. And, you know, we just kind of feel maybe not. Not our best. And. And so it's really clear. You can look at your own behavior.

And this is a gorgeous state. There's a lot that you can. You can enjoy. So I agree with you.

I think makes me want to make sure I take care of myself a little bit more, maybe especially so at this time of year and really have faith in what, you know, God has been able to provide us in this beautiful state.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:27:17

Okay, you heard that from Governor Mark Gordon. Take care of yourself, call 988, take care of each other. It's also okay to call 988 for or with someone else.

And then we can also take care of our community. I'd like to give two examples about communities taking care of themselves.

Mayor Max Mickelson in Rock Springs has offered for all 307 employees he has in the city to take a suicide prevention and intervention training program, and so far over two thirds have volunteered to take it.

In the Department of Corrections, the leadership has offered both their clinicians and non clinicians, including supervisors, to take the same course, and at least 40 have taken it so far. So these are just simple examples of how leadership matters and how leaders can play a role in helping to support and strengthen their communities.

But we've also got to get involved at the state level. We all have elected officials and representatives. We can all play a role in advocating for for ourselves. Mental health and health are intertwined.

They are inseparable and they are essential. So it's so important for funding and support to continue for all of these programs that are building capacity at the local level.

Thank you, Governor Gordon, for being on the podcast again. Really appreciate your insight and appreciate your time.

Gov Mark Gordon: 00:28:54

Thank you, Dr. Corso.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:28:56

Thank you for listening to this episode of One Minute Can Save a Life. Take care of yourself. Take care of your neighbor.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:29:02

Be bold.

Dr Kent Corso: 00:29:03

Ask the hard questions. Because if you don't, who will.

Timothy Brien: 00:29:07

Production support for One Minute Can Save a Life was provided by TKB Podcast Studio. To find out more about our services, go to tkbpodcaststudio.com.